#1  
Alt 28.11.2017, 17:06
NickV NickV ist offline
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Hello, would anyone please help me to translate a part of this article from a German genealogy magazine? It's regarding the ancestry of the Bidembach family of Lutheran pastors of Wuerrtemberg. I think the gist of it is that Johannes Bidembach's cousin was a goldsmith who left him land in Wuerrtemberg and that's the connecting link to know more about the family's lineage, but I'm not sure if the link of cousinship is confirmed or not. I took relevant snippets here.

https://i.imgur.com/u2AEcnj.png

https://i.imgur.com/kjeT7s6.png

https://i.imgur.com/672jnGB.png

https://i.imgur.com/qRaCLeh.png

Really appreciate any help.

I guess I'm just confused on how the author figured out the Bidembach/Wirtemberger connection just based on Johannes Bidembach inheriting some property from a cousin in Wurttemburg, as he doesn't say if his cousin's will explicitly named him or not. Maybe it's just that academic German language isn't conveying what he means quite the same way as English.
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  #2  
Alt 28.11.2017, 17:37
Anna Sara Weingart Anna Sara Weingart ist offline
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Hi. In the last three files are the upper parts of the text missing. Thus I can't read it.

Maybe it's only in the second file (kjeT7s6.png) where the upper part is missing ?
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Geändert von Anna Sara Weingart (28.11.2017 um 17:42 Uhr)
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  #3  
Alt 28.11.2017, 18:25
Anna Sara Weingart Anna Sara Weingart ist offline
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Zitat:
Zitat von NickV Beitrag anzeigen
... I think the gist of it is that Johannes Bidembach's cousin was a goldsmith who left ....
It's only a theory the author claimed, without evidence of the relation. You can believe it, or not.
He speakes of a "heritage", which the cousin left him. I didn't read the word "land" in the text.

Zitat:
Zitat von NickV Beitrag anzeigen
... I guess I'm just confused on how the author figured out .... Maybe it's just that academic German language isn't conveying what he means quite the same way as English.
It's not academic German, but it's bad German, even hard to read for a native German.
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  #4  
Alt 28.11.2017, 18:50
NickV NickV ist offline
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Zitat:
Zitat von Anna Sara Weingart Beitrag anzeigen
Hi. In the last three files are the upper parts of the text missing. Thus I can't read it.

Maybe it's only in the second file (kjeT7s6.png) where the upper part is missing ?
Oh, sorry, are these better?

https://i.imgur.com/HSCvS6W.png

https://i.imgur.com/3NpviRI.png

https://i.imgur.com/KQkIkUB.png

https://i.imgur.com/PlVqfDf.png
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  #5  
Alt 28.11.2017, 18:59
NickV NickV ist offline
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Zitat:
Zitat von Anna Sara Weingart Beitrag anzeigen
It's only a theory the author claimed, without evidence of the relation. You can believe it, or not.
He speakes of a "heritage", which the cousin left him. I didn't read the word "land" in the text.


It's not academic German, but it's bad German, even hard to read for a native German.
Oh, thank you.
Was Johannes Bidembach mentioned in the lawsuit between the goldsmith's cousins and the surgeon who was taken to court by them?
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  #6  
Alt 28.11.2017, 19:26
Anna Sara Weingart Anna Sara Weingart ist offline
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No, the name Bidembach or Bidenbach was never named in cases of - or in context of - the goldsmith Wirtemberger. And it's never mentioned in an old source that Bidenbach had a cousin named Wirtemberger, from whom he inherited something.

But there are none old sources of which one can find out the truth. So, sometimes it is better to have a weak theory, than to have no theory.
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Geändert von Anna Sara Weingart (28.11.2017 um 19:30 Uhr)
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  #7  
Alt 28.11.2017, 20:58
Mysterysolver Mysterysolver ist offline
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To give you the full picture:

Page 47, at Chapter IV, it says:
"Like said before, Bidenbach and his sons have only stated their ancestry roughly.
(Bidenbach said he was a country boy and born in Dagersheim. He also said that Eberhard Bidenbach's grandmother, great-grandparents and other forefathers had been good Württembergians)
It was known that the mother's father was an illegitimate son of the long before deceased count Ludwig I. of Wirtemberg and called himself Wirtemberger.
The name of the mother, who is named as Margaretha in the heritage line, is written in no documentary evidence.
According to Schön*, there is only an old handwritten genealogical table of the family Bidembach (presumably of the 17.century) that Hans Wirtemberger was married to a woman VON REISCHACH** and had a daughter Margaretha, which is told to be the mother of Hans Bidenbach."

It also says that Hans (or his brother Ulrich??) Wirtemberger was often mixed up with the illegitimate son of count EBERHARD IM BARTE - this son carried the same first name.

Maybe a look into the Schön and Reischach literature helps:
*see note 50
**note 51: "The family VON REISCHACH had possessions in Nussdorf (Eberdingen) since 1468. The connection between the two families was made because of the fact that within the questionable time there is a Hans Wirtemberger mentioned in the possessions.
At least Schön in 1903 (see note 50) thinks it is possible and points out to Gabelkover, who says there is a Hans Wirtemberger the older who in 1490 makes an oath of loyalty to the monastery of Hirsau. This document is not existent in the monastery. But already on 13 January 1489, Martin Wirtemberger and his consorts of Nussdorf had conscripted themselves to the monastery. (the original document is held in the Stuttgart main state archive under the number A 491 U 131).
The Württemberger family of Nussdorf was not of noble ancestry and had nothing to do with the Wirtembergers the book is talking about."
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PS: Suche jegliche "Verflechtungen" zwischen FN Wichert & Zielke (Pommern, evtl. auch andere Gebiete). Außerdem: Nachfahren der Gertrud CYGANEK, geb. KILIAN (aus Leobschütz, Schlesien)
--
FN-Liste: Hamersky, Quitoschinger (Böhmen und Sachsen) / Kilian (Schlesien) / Kloss (Masuren) / Wichert, Zielke (Pommern) / Huismann, Memering (Emsland und Landkreis Leer)
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  #8  
Alt 28.11.2017, 21:05
Anna Sara Weingart Anna Sara Weingart ist offline
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... He speakes of a "heritage", which the cousin left him. I didn't read the word "land" in the text. ...
I meant the author speaks of a heritage, which Bidembach received from his cousin.
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  #9  
Alt 29.11.2017, 01:49
NickV NickV ist offline
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Thanks for the help guys. I wondered if anyone knows the source then that the author is talking about when he says that Bidembach described himself coming from Dagersheim and his family being from Wurttemberg? And is the lawsuit against the surgeon available anywhere to see the names of the cousins involved in it?
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  #10  
Alt 29.11.2017, 05:57
NickV NickV ist offline
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I just note that on the issue with the surgeon it says "The original letter of appeal can be found in the city archive of Esslingen. There is no information on how the issue ended." I wondered if that's available for public viewing.
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